The Carcharodons and Primaris - Forum - DakkaDakka
See Tweets about #carcharodons on Twitter. So if one was to #paint either # rainbowwarriors or #carcharodons #primaris marines, which should . Meet Mira . 6 days ago The Carcharodons (High Gothic Carcharodon Astra, low Gothic Space The Grey Tithe is usually a semi-regular swap meet with allied. GW - Warhammer Campaigns; meet the Carcharodons - posted in Gyrocopters Station: Having spent yesterday afternoon chatting to.
Even before the success of Red Tithe I knew I wanted to carry on writing more about the Carcharodons. It all snowballed from there really. What were your main influences when writing it? Did you draw upon any real-life experience to help you plan or write it?
It was really about making it a continuation of the influences that inspired the first. This is your first sequel novel — did you feel any additional pressure, or find any different challenges, in following on from Red Tithe? It was an interesting experience. The only real pressure was making sure they stayed true to their previous iterations. How does the final product compare to your original concept?
Because of this, Techmarines are seldom seen on the battlefield. They also don't use reserve companies realising that having of the finest warriors sitting around doing nothing is fucking stupid. Each company is thought to be a self-contained force, with their own scouts and veterans, ensuring they've got guys for every situation on hand. This has drawbacks of course, as they can't simply ask for reinforcements from a reserve company and must make do; for this reason Apothecaries are prized and kept off the front lines since every Marine makes a difference.
At the same time it means that they've got all their companies actively doing stuff. It seems likely that their scorched earth campaign during the Badab War was in fact more of a violent looting spree, restocking the Carcharodons' inventory after having spent so long outside known space. Filling up on ammo, weapons, armor, supplies, and grabbing everything that wasn't nailed down, followed by the nails, and then everything that used to be nailed downbefore destroying anything else the enemy could possibly have had a use for.
Red Tithe (Carcharodons): guiadeayuntamientos.info: Robbie MacNiven: Books
We do know that they claimed a bunch of recruits post-Badab, and they probably do this after all their big campaigns maybe every time they come back into contact with the Imperium. The Red Tithe novel appears to confirm this theory; the Carcharodons' 3rd Company, having just come off a nasty brawl with some Tyranidsrocked up to a remote Imperial prison planet with the intent of claiming all of its inmates as either serfs or potential recruits.
A Night Lords warband had the same idea and arrived just before they did; the two groups proceeded to have a slight disagreement about who was going to empty out this wretched hive of scum and villainy. After several rounds of murder tag and several thousand casualties laterthe Carcharodons were victorious. They scooped up all the prisoners, stripped the place bare, and took off before Imperial reinforcements could arrive.
The Imperium at large is mostly unaware of their existence, with even members of the Inquisition having limited information about them. When the dust settled, the Blood Angels were given a fancy memorial and got a spaceport named after them but the Space Sharks went unremembered, save for a few crumbling statues in a forgotten corner with blank obsidian disks for faces. A few members of the Inquisition have naturally raised concerns about this apparently undocumented force of Astartes just wandering around the galaxy with a predilection for wholesale slaughter and leaving very few survivors on either side when they're done.
To give an example from Carcharodons: It ended up totally working and disrupting part of a Tyranid invasion, but it also turned out that there were so many cultists on the planet that the Carcharodons decided "fuck it, the Emperor can sort them out" and promptly started just killing everyone with the help of some Renegade Marines they'd invited along for the ride.
There was only one survivor left from the ensuing chaos afterwards. A minority also speculated that they might be World Eater remnants, though since that seems to be the old Minotaurs ' schtick it's probably not true. Moreover, given that they are believed to have been founded by M32 and most of their wargear appears to be Heresy-era, they are most likely of the Second Founding or a product of the Heresy.
Most of the evidence for these theories is based on their military tactics and the few descriptions we had of marines outside of their armour. Their favoured tactics, relying heavily on stealth and surprise, would seem to fall in line with the Raven Guard's combat doctrines, at least on a strategic level, where they appear suddenly into whatever battlezone they are targeting without warning. Their method of war is closer to the pre-Heresy Night Lords, if substantially higher in body count, or the World Eaters, if they were a little more subtle.
To give an example, they appeared above a shrine world and immediately took command despite the mass unrest such an action caused. They then forcibly shut down the shrines the world was famous for, thus provoking a miniature rebellion and coaxing the genestealer cult out of hiding.
So whilst they have subtle overarching goals, one could argue that they are quite direct in the methods of achieving it. Physically, the Carcharodons displayed pale white skin and black eyes with black sclera. These were common traits of people living upon Lycaeus and Nostramo, the homeworlds of Corvus Corax and Konrad Curze, respectively.
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While the modern Raven Guard exhibit these traits as a result of mutations within their gene-seed, Imperial Armour states that the Space Shark's gene-seed is unusually pure, i.
However, their Chief Librarian has toothy denticle growths on his elbows and around his neck which comes from a "degraded genetic inheritance" which essentially gives him sharkskin, a condition that effects the entire chapter being much more common on older Carcharadons. They also suffer from something they call the "the blindness" a condition that can make them lose all control during combat to the extent they may even attack their own.
This makes their appearance all the more unusual, as the Carcharodons are known to take recruits from the worlds they conquer, meaning there is no common genetic source that could explain their development other than through their gene-seed.
Interestingly, the Chief Librarian also seems to make a note of the 3rd Captain's particular genetic heritage, as if it were somehow significant. It may very well be that the Carcharodons have more than one gene-seed source; Corvus Corax was noted for his snow-white skin, and Konrad Curze for his black eyes.
Official fluff presents their origins as being ambiguous, even to the point of mutual contradiction within the same story. Both Raven Guard-offshoots and Night Lords believe they are related, whilst they retain a lot of World Eater style equipment and tactics.
As with a lot of GW fluff, it's unlikely to get explained. Given that this was during the time that the Blood Ravens were really in the popular vogue, the idea that the Carcharodons are secretly Loyalist Traitors was pretty popular because their tactics are more like the Night Lords than anyone else's. GW has tried to walk it back a bit by saying the Raven Guard were basically the Night Lords only with Corax instead of Curze since then, but the debate still rages on because most of the documents supporting the Raven Guard hypothesis are speculative in-universe, and the Imperium would probably cover up a loyal Chapter being descended from Traitors if the Blood Ravens are anything to go by.
Extermination suggests they're the descendants of Terran-born Raven Guard exiles led by Shade Lord Arkhas Fal, the grey armoured and white-faced pre-Corax XIXth Legion who had a reputation for going from stillness to extreme brutality and were basically taken under Horus Lupercal's wing in the centuries before their own Primarch was discovered.
GW - Warhammer 40,000 Campaigns; meet the Carcharodons
The exiles are referred to as a "nomad predation fleet" the same as the Carcharodons in the Badab War books and their cognomen during the early Great Crusade era was "Pale Nomads", a title given to them by the Luna Wolves and also the title of Te Kahurangi, the Chapter's current chief librarian, rumoured to be only three generations removed from the original exiles.
The Reaper Prime Captain of the Third Battle Company wears armour bearing the skull and lightning bolts of the Terran Pacification War further highlighting the Chapter's links to the pre-Crusade Legions, and Tyberos' distinctive shark-like helmet is also featured in the book.
In Horus Heresy 6 however they raid the Night Lords for supplies, which includes gene-seed which would make them chimeric if they tried to use it and in Robbie MacNiven's Black Library novels Red Tithe and Outer Dark the only books we have dedicated to our jawesome friends it outright states that the Space Sharks are a chimeric combination of Raven Guard and Night Lord gene-seed, so the debate rages on.
Raven Guard[ edit ] Following the publication of Imperial Armour 10, new evidence was published to support the Raven Guard theory by Games Workshop's licensors.
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- RAPID FIRE: Robbie MacNiven Talks Carcharadons: Outer Dark
Presumably the idea that every Traitor Legion has a secret Loyalist Successor was too much for them. Among the fluff, it is stated that Deathwatch Apothecaries have occasionally had the chance to analyze the gene-seed of Carcharodons slain in the service of the Deathwatch, and that they bear certain genetic markers unique to the Raven Guard. Of course, this being the Imperium of Man, you can never be certain what they're actually finding or if the records are accurate. The Pale Nomads were noted for being the Emperor's preferred operators, often stealthing their way into enemy fortresses and armies to slay their leaders should they refuse surrender, and adopting multi-angle strike-and-fade tactics if the enemy continued to fight on.
The latter is a favored tactic of the Carcharodons on the battlefield. The Pale Nomads were known for crushing any hint of resistance, which some have equated to the Space Sharks decimating entire star systems in order to sow terror.
Their tactics evidenced a disdain for humans that the Raven Lord couldn't stomach, which is similar to the attitude adopted by the Space Sharks during the Badab War when they Exterminatus'd Badab and hundreds of Loyalist Space Marines along with it. The Pale Nomads were also slavers, who would take children from defeated worlds to raise as Legionnaires, a practice that the Space Sharks have adopted.
The Xeric tribesmen from which the Pale Nomads recruited also had a tradition of tattooing their bodies and painting their armor with tribal markings. This could possibly explain why the Space Sharks have an abundance of MkVI armor alongside their other Heresy-era tech, since the Raven Guard were the first to get their hands on them when they entered production during the Horus Heresy and that they're unusually stealthy with a variety of sensory systems to assist them in the void of space.
Similar to the Black Rage, this defect caused otherwise normal Space Marines to charge into battle seeking only to destroy all trace of their foes, whether they lived or died. Those afflicted would develop eyes of solid black, and would neither speak nor reason until the condition passed. Finally, it is stated that Corax would divest the Raven Guard of the surviving Terran-born Pale Nomads, whom he found too similar to the cruel lords he overthrew on Deliverance.
One of the many branches of Raven Guard he sent off on isolated, never-ending crusades contained the Battle Barge Nicor, an old English word for a water sprite or monster later to be found in the fleet of Space Sharks who ended the Badab War.
Tellingly, in Horus Heresy book 3, Corax had no idea what happened to the fleet of Terran Exiles or to its master Arkhas Fal and made no effort to contact them in the build-up prior to the Drop Site Massacre. There is no evidence that these exiles were recalled after the massacre either, despite the men "officially" counting towards about half of the size of the remaining Legion, so they were considered an entirely separate force.
They could simply have been designated a new Chapter following the end of the civil war. From what I've read, it seems like Cawl baked up the Primaris on low-heat for something like 10k years and made like a hundred batches that were battle-ready as soon as Guilliman needed them. What I don't understand is how he could have made so many of them without the galaxy knowing about them? Did he just keep whole Chapters in the freezer until the right moment? If the Primaris were made for Chapters that already existed, then how did they fit in with their new battle-brothers?
Even if they were made for specific Chapters, if they had no real experience and were made from fresh geneseed, would Primaris even have afflictions like the Blood Angels and Space Wolves have? There are still dozens, if not hundreds of Chapters of Space Marines on the other side of the Maledictum, so how do the Primaris get to reinforce them if that big warp-wall blocks off so much travel and communication? If Guilliman was going out and distributing the Primaris, would the Carcharodons Astra even have access to them?
Meeting Guilliman, surely a discussion of their exile would take place, but being a void-based Chapter, I find it even beyond unlikely that the Carcharodons would ever find out about these new upgrades. I heard that a regular Space Marine can be upgraded into a Primaris, is this true? Where does it describe this?